But still within the notion that children are not subjects with rights, and are indeed the property of their parents, why this shortage of studies?

— What one knows about, which there has been lots of study, is domination, for example, of parents over their children. The intervention in the marriage, the choice of a husband, the preconceived marriage... This, historically, has been widely studied. But not looked upon as violence, but as a traditional practice, the non-exercising of the rights of the woman. But I want to highlight, in this question of when society began to discover that this is not natural, that it’s intolerable, violence against the child, that I haven’t found one president, not a prime minister or minister, not a single State – and I’ve traveled considerably throughout the world – that would deny support for this work. And this is fine, modestly, because the work is not only mine, in the debate of the 3rd Committee of the General Assembly one could see an extremely wide arc of support. That is to say, we had support interventions from Senegal, Egypt, Thailand, Sudan, Saudi Arabia., from the Latin American countries, from the European countries, evidently, and from the United States, by way of the Assistant Secretary of State for the Family. Even a State that defends corporal punishment supported all of the study’s recommendations. There were 45 speeches in total, all of them supportive, and with  many concrete questions. This as well was very emotional.

 When was this?

— On the 11th of October. This, for us, was fundamental, because the General Assembly is generally very cold. And this was a very vibrant session. I think that this as well was the product of a lot of dialogue, incessant conversation, with major help from Marcelo Daher, also a previous research at the NEV/USP, my main assistant, during these two years in which I went about the world, meeting, speaking, in dialogue with specialists, but at the same time with governments.

 Would you say then that we could be on the threshold of a new perception about this absurdity, which is the practice of violence against children?

— On the threshold, yes. We’re still not on the path to emancipation, but I’m convinced that the States are prepared. For example, when we see China carrying out research – there in an inset about this in the book –, in six Provinces, about sexual abuse in the memory of adolescents; when in India they carry out a survey of 16,000 interviews also about sexual abuse; and the governments present this with major transparency, something is being prepared. I went to Indonesia and the country has an action plan based on the Report’s recommendations. Syria has an action plan... The regime doesn’t matter, the country doesn’t matter, this is occurring. We had a partial meeting in Cairo, and the complete support of the Arab League... That is to say, for us this was something highly compensating, because it’s not just the support of the developed countries of the North, but the South has assumed the theme. The Buenos Aires Consultation was marvelous, there was a declaration by the ministers of a commitment to introduce legislation in order to end violence, against corporal punishment, which was magnificent ... So, I believe that we’ll have good surprises. And the book is not a catalogue of horrors, you’ll see. In truth it’s a portrait, I believe that it’s reasonable and gives hope. And there are many good practices. From North to South.

 When you dived into the work of clearly writing the book, had your perception changed, in some manner, about violence against children? What was your principal perception about this theme when you sat down and said, “now I can write”?

— Firstly I had to write because I had to finish the job, is that not so? And well the eye of the journalist, has to be delivered, there’s no conversation, the deadline is tomorrow. The closure of the report was in August. I had already put off delivery, it was to have been presented in 2005, I gained an extra year of time. But then there was the big surprise of which I spoke: the States are preparing to take a leap forward. Secondly, the children and the adolescents, considering that I didn’t have a lot of experience in the participation of children and adolescents, are the best experts. If we don’t listen to them, if governments don’t listen to them, it will not be possible to take the road towards emancipating them. We have to listen to them, integrate them into the process. But in third place, the picture was and is a lot worse that I had imagined.

And when you say exactly this last phrase, what hits hardest on your head? Forced labor? The punishments?

— What had shocked me most and continues to shock is the situation of children in conflict with the law. Children who are behind bars throughout the world. Children doing jail time, at times mixed in with adults. And young girls mixed in with young boys and adults.